The question isn't whether the leadership said it, but that if the leadership did say it, can it be reconciled with its claims to divine inspiration? I'm a bit unsure as to how the leadership's claim to divine leadership was established anyway, but given that it was established, how do JWs reconcile what was clearly false prophecy with the leadership's authority?
Cold Steel
JoinedPosts by Cold Steel
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46
"You will never grow old in this present system of things" -- some campaign tools
by FatFreek 2005 ini am approaching 76 years old.
i can clearly recall that awake!
statement and similar during the pre-1975 hype -- "staying alive in '75", et al.
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Paranormal Warning
by Cold Steel ini've heard some weird stories coming from jws about the paranormal.
i know about the warnings about items that come from unbelievers -- those don't interest me as much.
what i am interested in are actual experiences in stories of the paranormal you've heard or experienced yourself.
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Cold Steel
OrphanCrow > Yes. They are reflective anomalies of light.
Oh, you'd be a lot of fun at a campout!
You're right, of course. Remember that famed "face" on Mars. And the pyramids? It all went away when photographed in high resolution with better light and high resolution. Still, to say the paranormal is all imagination is also problematic. Some things, like the creaking television plastics and equalizing of pressure in water pipes, are explainable phenomena. Other things aren't so easy to explain away.
The WTBTS overdoes religion and the occult and creates an atmosphere of fear and a means of control. Coming from a Protestant background, I loved scary movies, Halloween and monster magazines. We had fun. But in the WT community, it's used to terrorize. If you swapped toys with classmates, anything you brought home might be suspect. Some JWs avoid yard sales, gifts from non-believers and shun books about other cultures and beliefs.
The occult has long been used to control people, partially because there's something within all of us. As long as we can explain it we can dismiss it. But regardless of how practical we all are in the daylight, let us experience something in the dark that we can't explain and we'll all react with fear. It's hardwired into all of us. You may say here and now that you wouldn't mind being locked into an abandoned prison or asylum to spend the night, but if it came down to it, we'd probably all chicken out rather than do it. Even though no one has ever been killed by a "ghost" or demonic entity, we're all hard wired by society, religion and our imaginations to fear them. Lights can flicker, pipes can creak and bumps can all be rationalized. But let the lights go out and our rationalization goes out the window!
And no one can change that.
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Paranormal Warning
by Cold Steel ini've heard some weird stories coming from jws about the paranormal.
i know about the warnings about items that come from unbelievers -- those don't interest me as much.
what i am interested in are actual experiences in stories of the paranormal you've heard or experienced yourself.
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Cold Steel
Years ago when my brother and I got our first Kodak Instamatic cameras, someone told us that if we photographed glass windows in old houses that we'd see old images from the past. We tried it and with a little imagination we could see things in window reflections we swore were ghost images.
I don't have the negatives anymore, but I decided to go back to one of our old "haunts" in Western Kentucky and photograph the house we spent a lot of time in for a photo project I was working on (non-paranormal). I went to Google to take some snapshots of an upper window and several lower windows. In one of the lower windows I got a "face" that shook even me up, but I can't locate it now. And in the photo below there are several figures that seem to be people with ties. (The figure on the right seems to be wearing a hat, and the upper photo seems to be the face of a dog.)
Go ahead and zoom in. Are these simply my imagination? Are they reflective anomolies of light and nothing more? Or are they images of the past?
You tell me. The mind is a fertile pot where light, ghosts and demons all vie for dominance in our psyches. BTW, I went back to Google last night and looked at the same house. This time there was nothing. I'm still going to try to find that downstairs face. That almost made me a believer!
How about you? Do you have any weird photos from the past? Any relics that move on their own accord?
By the way, if you have any really annoying associates in the Society, go to antique stores and buy old, used Ouji boards. Target your family and hide a board where it's not likely to be immediately found. Then find another location in the same house and hide a second one. Have a friend whose handwriting won't be recognized scribble the family's address somewhere on the box. Write it in pencil, then blot it to make it look old. Imagine how they'll react when they find a second board stuffed down in the basement! It could be fun.
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Paranormal Warning
by Cold Steel ini've heard some weird stories coming from jws about the paranormal.
i know about the warnings about items that come from unbelievers -- those don't interest me as much.
what i am interested in are actual experiences in stories of the paranormal you've heard or experienced yourself.
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Cold Steel
I've heard some weird stories coming from JWs about the paranormal. I know about the warnings about items that come from unbelievers -- those don't interest me as much. What I am interested in are actual experiences in stories of the paranormal you've heard or experienced yourself.
Are there any urban legends that tend to circulate primarily among JWs, or have you actually experienced any strange or inexplicable things that you would label the paranormal? For those born into the religion, do you think the Society's emphasis on the paranormal or on demons affect your religious beliefs when you were young or tended to assist the Society in exerting control on your beliefs? Do you think it made you more fearful as a child or as an adult?
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2016 Revised bethel visitors 'dress code' pamphlet?
by neat blue dog indoes anybody have a digital copy of the revised bethel visitors 'dress code' pamphlet from this year?.
thanks.
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Who was the founder of Jehovah's Witnesses? JW Org states it was not Russell
by ToesUp infound this article in the about page on jw org.
i was a born in and was always taught charles taze russell was the founder.
guess i was wrong!
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Cold Steel
I remember watching Herbert W. Armstrong give his pitches on television. He, like the JWs, was a great believer in publishing. He came to identify himself with the return of the prophet Elijah. And he never took money. He'd hold up a booklet and say, "Now you can't buy this booklet. You don't have enough money to buy this booklet! But I'm going to tell you how you can get a copy of it and you won't have to spend a dime to get it!" But his claims were no greater than Rutherford's, who I believe had more of a right to the Society's founding father status than Russell. Thus, whether it's Armstrong, Russell, Rutherford or David Pack, there has to be some connection to God if one is to establish legitimacy.
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Who was the founder of Jehovah's Witnesses? JW Org states it was not Russell
by ToesUp infound this article in the about page on jw org.
i was a born in and was always taught charles taze russell was the founder.
guess i was wrong!
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Cold Steel
This is where the entire epic behind its claims begin to crumble. The organization does not claim to be a church; in fact, you can be thrown out of the outfit for even attending a church! Yet it's clear that Jesus organized a church and that he gave keys of authority to his apostles to bind, seal or affix on Earth, and that it would be recognized in Heaven. Or these keys could, conversely, loosen on Heaven or Earth. That meant their ordinations and baptisms would be binding and that when they cut people off for apostasy, that also would be recognized in Heaven.
The church had specific offices. Bishops, priests, elders, teachers, deacons, apostles, prophets and others, yet the WTB&TS -- a publishing firm -- has not bothered to even claim these keys. So how can it cut off, or disfellowship, people if it lacks these keys? Or if it does have them, how did they come by them? Who conveyed them? Who received them? If they aren't relevant, why does the Bible mention them?
How can a manmade organization acquire authority that anciently was conveyed by those who had authority?
If I were a JW, I'd certainly want to know these things, especially if I were going to listen to a Governing Body that claimed to speak by and through the power of the Almighty, I would certainly like to know whereby their authority came. If the organization is the Church of Jesus Christ, for Jesus said that upon this rock he would build his church, then it can't be the work of man. And so far the claims of the Governing Body are anemic at best. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established, and so far the GB has failed to claim even one word from God, or an angel, or from Jesus Christ.
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Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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Cold Steel
Then it all comes down to belief then, doesn't it?
Death is an established fact. How it came into the world is debatable. I believe intelligence is eternal and that all people and animals have intelligence. It's interesting to note that when Adam fell, God brought the couple garments of animal skins. Scholars have debated where these skins came from and how they came to be, but we have to accept that there are some things we'll never know for sure. And some things will always be a matter of faith.
The topic is why God allows suffering. Christians say the answer is, 1) God will not act in a way that will interfere with man's free agency, and 2) all suffering is temporal and therefore the worst people can inflict is death, which does not end one's existence, but frees the spirit to return unto God. Only in the atheistic universe is death the end of the line. “As in Adam, all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." Regardless of when predation began, every living thing on Earth, every bug, every plant and even Earth itself will eventually be made whole and glorified because of Christ.
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True God would not seek praise nor worship from us
by elbib inwhen asked: “why there is so much of suffering here if god exists?” buddha responded with silence because he knew the following:.
1) even though living in heaven, anyone can live as though he lives in hell and vice versa which means how a person thinks is the key.
experience show that whatever a person does with 100% involvement (totality = beauty), it is like he lives in heaven.
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Cold Steel
Giving without expectation is one of the great teachings of Christianity when people deal with one another. My wife is not Christian, and she always keeps track of whether people reciprocate with dinners, or whether thank you notes are received at appropriate times. Over the years she has vastly improved, but I see no worth in such expectations of gratitude, although I think they make societies better. God, however, is a different matter. Throughout the ages, He has reached out to man, either to bless or curse. We begin our relationship to Him as servants, not "slaves" (a disagreeable term I wish the JWs would drop). As we develop and grow we become "sons," a familial term. After that, we become "friends." But our relationship is based on mutual respect and agreements called covenants. We keep our end and He's bound. As provider He can impart blessings or cursings. In every instance in the past, we've been the transgressors (often being identified as whores). There's also the "other guy" in the mix, and we're not given the choice of not taking sides. If we reject God, the Adversary gains power over us and leads us to do abominable things. This brings hunger, poverty, sorrow, disease and war. If we choose God and prove ourselves, we gain knowledge, prosperity, happiness and peace. And one of the greatest of these is knowledge. And because God is our divine parent, He feels completely free to school us in such things as gratitude. There's nothing self-serving about it. But it's His role as parent that causes Him to do it, not a need to be praised by the likes of us. And because He is God, and our Creator, He determines our moral code and what's right and wrong.
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True God would not seek praise nor worship from us
by elbib inwhen asked: “why there is so much of suffering here if god exists?” buddha responded with silence because he knew the following:.
1) even though living in heaven, anyone can live as though he lives in hell and vice versa which means how a person thinks is the key.
experience show that whatever a person does with 100% involvement (totality = beauty), it is like he lives in heaven.
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Cold Steel
Elbib» Fall is not a one-time event nor a universal event. It happens with many, and it does not happen with many. Feeling more important than others is the fall and this is the root cause of all problems. If one refuses to feel more important than others, he would remain as firm as a mountain against fall. And refusal to feel more important than others is very much possible "if one wants to" even now.
Fine, but you're approaching a very complex topic very superficially. According to Christian theology, if you're subject to death, you're burdened by the fall (as are we all). So if we're to discuss it, we must first define our terms. I don't feel more important than others, nor do many people I know. We try to use Jesus as our guide, and he, in the view of most Christians, was Yahweh in premortality. Yet he never snubbed anyone. He operated under the saying he gave his followers, namely, that the greatest of all is the servant of all. One of my favorite New Testament stories is the one of Jesus and the woman at the well. It was, as far as we know, the first announcement by Jesus of his identity as the Messiah.
The law given by God to Israel was very detailed and doesn't at all smack of self importance on God's part at all. Because the people had rejected God, even refusing to see him in his glory, and because they returned to the gods of the Egyptians, the law became a curriculum for a more primitive people; however, it directed people to love each other, to care for their animals and the poor. There were no other gods or theologies before or after, East or West, North or South, that were as compassionate, thoughtful or beneficial to the people than the God of Israel. The gods created by men either served men's lusts or greed or they were only distantly associated with their creations. The God of Israel sought to make people better; to make them conscious of the needs of other. It wasn't perfect, because the people weren't perfect, but it shouldn't be underappreciated. It was never based on the self importance of God but on lifting people up, making them more better and ultimately bringing them back into his presence.